[Liga NOS] Discussão Geral

[Almeida]

Costinha fora.

Vai Mota

[Miki Feher]

Costinha fora.

Vai Mota

Nao me apetece

[Almeida]

@[USER=63]Miki Feher[/USER]
Convencido. :colb1:

[Miki Feher]

Convem especificares que Mota falas oh badameco


Peca por tardia esta decisão do Costinha ir com os porcos. O Paços merece melhor, principalmente depois do ano passado. Merece alguém que lute pelo meio da tabela/Liga Europa, não um cromo que os mete em último.

[Sobrado]

Ele não tem culpa de vestir fatos e ter um Porsche.

[Almeida]

Convem especificares que Mota falas oh badameco

Era claramente o teu irmão

[Mingos]

http://www.ojogo.pt/Futebol/1a_liga/Port...id=3512650

MTRIGUEIROS03.11.2013 - 19:21desculpa por serem corruptos!

que é isto trigueiros

[MiguelTrigueiros]

enfim

[Dani]

"
This is an article based 100% on my opinion with a lot facts backing me up.

• 1- Why, since 2002/2003, we see every year big transfers from Portuguese teams to other much more richer european one's?
  
  
  
• 2- Why, with only a population of 10M, portuguese managers are considered probably the best in the world(or at least close to italian and spanish one's)?
  
  
  
• 3- How can again a small nation like Portugal with much less monetary resources have the 5th best ranked league in terms of European coefficient, better positioned than French Ligue 1, Russian Premier League, Dutch Eredisie and Turkish Super Lig?
  
  

This are the main 3 questions that can explain the success Portuguese Football within Europe that I will try to answer.

1- Why, since 2002/2003, we see every year big transfers from Portuguese teams to other much more richer european one's?

Two main factors: the Porto model of business(which Benfica, Sporting and even Braga tried more or less successfully copy) and the Portuguese talent generated from the Sporting Academy.

The easiest one to explain is of course the Sporting Academy, as you probably know or not Sporting is the only team in the world that developed two Ballon D'Or winners(Cristiano Ronaldo and Luís Figo) and one runner-up(Paulo Futre). Basically this is the most successful Academy in the world and in the past 15 years Sporting did a very decent amount of money selling the talents they formed:

• Simão Sabrosa to Barcelona - €15 million
  
  
  
• Hugo Viana to Newcastle - €12 million
  
  
  
• Cristiano Ronaldo to Manchester United - €15 million
  
  
  
• Ricardo Quaremsa to Barcelona - €6 million + Rochemback (the value was not significantly high but he got a lot of success later and just for you guys to know that he was formed in the Sporting Academy)
  
  
  
• Nani to Manchester United - €25.5 million
  
  
  
• João Moutinho to FCPorto - €11million
  
  
  
• Miguel Veloso to Genoa - €9million + Zapater
  
  
  
• Bruma to Galatasaray - €10 million
  
  
  
• Tiago Ilori to Liverpool - €7.5 million
  
  

Now leaves the much more harder to explain Porto's business model all started in the year 2002 when this guy called Mourinho went to coach Porto. He got a a squad mainly formed by Portuguese Players(81,2% to be more exact) and 6 other players 3 from Brasil and 3 from the Eastern Europe(3 of this 6 players played in a Portuguese team before joining Porto).

Before the actual model and because they didn't have an Academy like Sporting, Porto dominated most of the Portuguese talent pool from other Portuguese smaller teams basically if a player did good in a smaller team they would instant buy him and if a player was being "dismissed" or had any troubles with the 2 big rivals(Sporting or Benfica) they would buy them as well especially because it would be a psychological win to buy those players for free or much cheaper than the real value they had.

When Mourinho comes to Porto he wins 6 tiles including 2 major european one's (2002-2003 UEFA Cup and 2003-2004 Champions League) in 2 years, the squad were super valued and they were "crazy good", this combined with Portugal getting the 2nd place in the EURO 2004(a record for the Portuguese national team) using in their starting XI, five Porto players made the perfect environment for Porto to sell their players for absurd prices.

Here is a list of the players sold by Porto between 2 years before Mourinho arrived until he left:

Before Mourinho:

• Mário Jardel to Galatasaray - $16 million (no euros back then xD)
  
  
  
• Jorge Andrade to Deportivo de la Coruna - €13 million
  
  

During Mourinho:

• Hélder Postiga to Tottenham - €9 million
  
  
  
• Paulo Ferreira to Chelsea - €20 million
  
  
  
• Ricardo Carvalho to Chelsea - €30 million
  
  
  
• Deco to Barcelona - €15 million + Quaresma
  
  

One year after the departure of Mourinho(this players were part of the starting XI which Mourinho used to win the Champions League):

• Derley to Dynamo Moscow - €7 million
  
  
  
• Maniche to Dynamo Moscow - €16 million
  
  

They also sold Costinha, Carlos Alberto and Nuno Valente for a price bellow €5 million each and Mourinho for €2.5 million.

Basically Porto wins the Champions League and in the next 2/3 transfer markets loses 8 starting XI players + Mourinho and some key players like Jorge Costa and Vitor Baia are getting older and eventually need replacement. They had lost their team but they had a LOT OF MONEY but only the Portuguese market wasn't enough if they wanted to keep a high standard, so Porto turned their attention for external Markets especially the South American Market (one very important point is that in the Portuguese League there is no limit of Non-UE players and because of that Porto will start to invest a lot in Scouting and with mainstream Players from South America).

They bought mainstream players which got considered flops at the time after a very poor season like Luís Fabiano, Diego, Ibson and Thiago Silva(ye the PSG one ).And got some good deals like Seitaridis, Quaresma, Paulo Assunção, Pepe and Raúl Meireles(this last 3 were bought in the Portuguese Market).

Porto continued to invest in the Portuguese Market like before and started to heavily invest in infrastructure(scouting, banks, funds,etc.) and players from the South American Market.

Here is a list of the players sold by Porto in the next seasons until our days:

• Seitaridis to Dynamo Moscow - €10 million
  
  
  
• Pepe to Real Madrid - €30 million
  
  
  
• Anderson to Manchester United- €30 million
  
  
  
• Bosingwa to Chelsea - €20.6 million
  
  
  
• Quaresma to Inter Milan - €18.6 million
  
  
  
• Aly Cissokho to Lyon - €15 million (this one have a crazy history, he arrives in Portugal in September starts on the bench, eventually gets into the starting XI, plays 13 matches for Setúbal(VFC) gets sold for €300k to FCPorto in January, plays 15 matches until the end of the season and is sold by €15 million)
  
  
  
• Lucho Gonzalez to Marseille - €18 million
  
  
  
• Lisandro Lopez to Lyon - €24 million + €4 million in objectives
  
  
  
• Bruno Alves to Zenit - €22 million
  
  
  
• Raúl Meireles to Liverpool - €13 million
  
  
  
• Rúben Micael+Falcao to Atlético Madrid - €45 million + €10 million in objectives
  
  
  
• André Villas-Boas to Chelsea(yep a manager) - €15 million
  
  
  
• Fredy Guarin to Inter Milan - €12.5 million
  
  
  
• Àlvaro Pereira to Inter Milan - €10 million
  
  
  
• Hulk to Zenit - €40 million (Porto sources say €60 million)
  
  
  
• James Rodríguez to Monaco - €45 million
  
  
  
• João Moutinho to Monaco - €25 million
  
  

Benfica tried to copy the same system buying "unknown" players for low amounts of money and sell them later for a lot more, it eventually worked out as Benfica sold a lot of players for huge quantities of money in last couple of years.

List of Benfica players sold since 2002:

• Fernando Meira to VfB Stuttgart - €7.5 million
  
  
  
• Tiago to Chelsea - €15 million
  
  
  
• Miguel to Valencia - €7.5 million
  
  
  
• Simão Sabrosa to Atlético Madrid - €20 million
  
  
  
• Manuel Fernandes to Valencia - €18 million
  
  
  
• Ramires to Chelsea - €22 million
  
  
  
• David Luiz to Chelsea - €25 million + Matic
  
  
  
• Di Maria to Real Madrid - €25 million + €11 million in objectives
  
  
  
• Fábio Coentrão to Real Madrid - €30 million
  
  
  
• Alex Witsel to Zenit - €40 million
  
  
  
• Javi Garcia to Manchester City - €20 million
  
  
  
• Lorenzo Melgarejo to Kuban - €7.5 million
  
  

Honorable Mention to Sporting(SCP), Braga(SCB) and Vitória(VSC) deals:

• Ricky van Wolfswinkel from SCP to Norwich City - €12 million
  
  
  
• Pizzi from SCB to Atletico Madrid - €15 million
  
  
  
• Sílvio from SCB to Atletico Madrid - €8 million
  
  
  
• Bébé from VSC to Manchester United - €9 million (he played 0 games for VSC, he was bought for 0€ a couple of weeks later is sold by €9 million, one of the big secrets of the Portuguese transfer market)
  
  

2- Why, with only a population of 10M, portuguese managers are considered probably the best in the world(or at least close to italian and spanish one's)?

The answer is quite simple, unlike in other countries, a "revolution" started in Portugal some managers like Fernando Santos, Jesualdo Ferreira and Carlos Queiroz never had a professional career as footballers and started to have really good results as managers eventually reaching the National Teams or the 3 big teams(FCPorto, SLBenfica ou SportingCP).

Then Mourinho appears in the scene winning almost every competition he possibly could win in the teams he represented. Some good managers with no football career as players followed him: Leonardo Jardim, Andre Villas-Boas and Vitor Pereira.

Others had a solid/decent football career including Paulo Fonseca, Toni, Jorge Jesus, Paulo Bento, Sá Pinto but only had moderate success with Jorge Jesus being the most successful manager of this group. Also almost all Portuguese teams have Portuguese managers.

3- How can again a small nation like Portugal with much less monetary resources have the 5th best ranked league in terms of UEFA coefficient, better positioned than French Ligue 1, Russian Premier League, Dutch Eredisie and Turkish Super Lig?

• Good academies with Sporting one being probably the best in the world that produces world class players like Figo, Ronaldo, Futre, Nani, Quaresma, Simão, etc.
  
  
  
• Great managers with Mourinho also being probably the best manager the world have seen(the most expensive manager is also Portuguese: Andre Villas Boas).
  
  
  
• Giant network of competent scouts all over the World, especially in South America.
  
  
  
• Unlimited spots for non-EU players, in order to create high quality squads without investing a lot in salaries and transfer fee's.
  
  
  
• Brilliant Administrations with Pinto da Costa considered a genius because of what he accomplished in FCPorto. Honorable mentions to António Salvador(president of SCBraga) and Luís Filipe Vieira(president of SLBenfica).
  
  

TLDR: If you like european football I recommend you to read this

P.S: Sorry for my English I hope it is readable and sorry for the huge wall of text. I'm still trying my best to format this in order to be more legible.

About me: I'm Portuguese of course and a big fan of Benfica, I tried to be the most neutral I could in this "article".

Sources:

Most of the transfers identified in: www.transfermarkt.co.uk/‎

Value of the transfers in: http://en.wikipedia.org/

In case of different values I tried always to pick the club's official one's and in case of undisclosed fee's all values taken from respectable media sources especially from 3 Portuguese newspapers: http://www.record.xl.pt/ , http://abola.pt/ and http://www.ojogo.pt/

If you feel any of the values are incorrect PM me with a respectable source. If any information I write about here is wrong please inform me and I will correct it.

Thanks guys

EDIT: The Dutch overlords are not happy that I consider the Portuguese Primeira Liga superior to the Dutch League here some interesting facts over the last 10 years:

02-03

Ajax - Quarter Finals CL

Porto - UEFA Cup Winners

Boavista - Semi Finals UEFA Cup

03-04

PSV - Quarter Finals UEFA Cup

Porto - Champions League Winners

04-05

PSV - Semi Finals CL

AZ Alkmaar - Semi Finals UEFA Cup

Sporting - Finals UEFA Cup

05-06

Benfica - Quarter Finals CL

06-07

PSV - Quarter Finals CL

AZ Alkmaar - Quarter Finals UEFA Cup

Benfica - Quarter Finals UEFA Cup

07-08

PSV - Quarter Finals UEFA Cup

Sporting - Quarter Finals UEFA Cup

08-09

Porto - Quarter Finals CL

09-10

Benfica - Quarter Finals Europa League

10-11

PSV - Quarter Finals EL

Twente - Quarter Finals EL

Benfica - Semi Finals EL

Braga - Finals EL

Porto - Europa League Winners

11-12

AZ Alkmaar - Quarter Finals EL

Benfica - Quarter Finals CL

Sporting - Semi Finals EL

12-13

Benfica - Finals EL"

---

@reddit[/hr]

[MiguelTrigueiros]

Muito bom. E é incrível como conseguimos tanto com tão pouco. Às vezes ponho-me a olhar para algumas equipas da EPL, La Liga e da Serie A e penso no que fariam os portugueses no lugar deles. Temos orçamentos ridiculamente menores que os deles e fazemos tanto ou mais que eles.

[Almeida]

Uns meses atrás houve uma imagem a dizer "Que era impossível não gostar destes 3 clubes". Depois tavam os logos do Sporting, Porto e Benfica e as fotos de jogadores que saíram dos 3 ou que ainda estavam. CR, Quaresma, Dí Maria, Nani ...

[Sobrado]

Muito bom.

[josewhite]

O negocio Bebe Maior chulice da história do Vitória.

[leo218]

Bébé from VSC to Manchester United - €9 million (he played 0 games for VSC, he was bought for 0€ a couple of weeks later is sold by €9 million, one of the big secrets of the Portuguese transfer market)

Acho que vamos morrer e nunca saberemos o que se passou pela cabeça neste negócio.

E sempre que me lembro que era o Bébé ou o Hazard ...

[Dani]